Spencer Campbell wants to be a toymaker
“I don't get satisfaction from just the creation of games… I want somebody to play.”
Spencer Campbell’s whole thing is making video game-like experiences for the metaphorical table. Through his series of four-letter games, including NOVA, LOOT, and RUNE, he’s been chasing that specific elixir of adaptation and found some success. The journey has led to some challenging moments, including harassment when designing a game inspired by video game Warframe, as well as suggesting to Rascal at Gen Con 2024 that he might quit RPGs entirely to instead focus on making board games.
One year later, it seems Campbell is still here despite the extra responsibility of being a new father. Rather than quitting RPGs, he found a new direction in his game design practice: he wants to stop chasing the new and the shiny and instead focus on supporting his older games. He wants to make sure his games are actually played — a brave and honorable pursuit.
Rascal sat down with Campbell at Gen Con 2025 for a follow-up conversation one year later, talking about running Gila RPGs after having a child, being affirmed by meeting fans, and chasing the dream of being a toymaker.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Rowan Zeoli: This is your first con since having a kid. What's that been like?
Spencer Campbell: It's very bizarre. She's five months old, and I'm around her literally 24-7. So, to be suddenly away… like, I'll go on grocery trips and stuff, but I'll be back in 30 minutes. [Gen Con] is like, I'm back in five days, and that's very, very bizarre. Yeah. It's coupled with the fact that I go back Sunday night, and then my wife leaves for a gig Monday morning, so we’re flip-flopping the solo parenting thing. I don't know, it's weird. It's weird being away from my kid.
Zeoli: How has running a business as a new parent been?
Campbell: That's also super interesting. The advice that every parent gets is, sleep when the baby sleeps. Sure, that makes sense. But for me, it's more like, write when the baby sleeps. So whenever the baby's down, I am doing whatever I can to design or write. What I'm realizing is that it's changing what I'm going to prioritize with designing things in the future because it's unsustainable to keep tracking, or keep chasing the new shiny thing, the next crowdfunder — it's exhausting to do.
And now I'm realizing my time that I have devoted to writing is so limited now that if I try to create new things, those things are gonna take a long time to come around. And I have this huge back catalog of things that I've already written, so why not try and pivot myself towards supporting that stuff, instead of trying to create new, new, new, shiny, shiny, new, shiny sort of thing. It's kind of like rewiring my brain and going this might be a good opportunity to go back and make a fun thing for LOOT, or, what would be a fun expansion for NOVA? Which is kind of cool. I'm thinking about games that I release and then forget. I'm going back and falling in love with those games again. There was a time where this [game] was the thing that I was the most excited about before I had to put it aside because it was released, and I had to go chase the next thing to be excited about.
Zeoli: Do you think shifting in that mindset and building out those games again will give them a longer shelf life?
Campbell: I'm hoping so. I can only speak to my experience. When I release something, I have no guarantee or even an assumption that people are going to play it because our hobby is such a collector's hobby. It's hard enough to get somebody to play an RPG, let alone learn a new one and then get a group together and all that sort of stuff. When I keep trying to release new things, I'm realizing I'm making things that people are just going to collect and put on a shelf. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I went through this whole thing a few months ago about what kind of designer I am. And a friend of mine, Matara, said, well, I think of myself as a toy maker. And I went, that's what I want. I love that. If I want to think of my games and myself as a toy maker, then they gotta be played.
Zeoli: What's the distinction for you?
Campbell: For me, I design games that you pick off the shelf, you play with the toy for a short little bit of time, and then you can put the toy away. It's not long term, it's not your forever game. It's like: I'm gonna play with my little action figures. I'm gonna have fun and then I'm gonna put them away for a little while, and I might go grab them later on.
